A Conduit, I
January 18th, 2008 by deanMy friend Tom Hill sends this out to the DC area Martians, and I endorse the basic idea: (Moon: No! Asteroids/Mars: Yes!)
If there were scads of dough, I would cavil not at the Moon, but there aren’t, and I do.
January 18th, 2008 at 19:46
Hey that seems like a great idea except for the environmental damage and orbital clutter from all the rockets. If you could just convince me that the damage can be mitigated, then I’d think this is a sweet scheme.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:08
Orbital clutter is, to me, a minor issue. We can’t send rockets into orbit because we might leave debris that will hinder us going into orbit? Catch 22.
As space travel becomes more important it will make economic sense to clean things up. Until then, not so much.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:33
Doesn’t it already make economic sense to at least start planning and be able to explain how the clutter will be managed? Once people realize “thar’s gold in them asteroids”, the number of launches will increase dramatically. I’m worried we could really screw ourselves if we’re not more careful about managing the orbital commons.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:17
1) Where & how will the testing & certification of equipment for use on asteroids and Mars be done ?
(some random location in Death Valley, CA, the channeled scablands of eastern WA or the Arizona desert IS NOT a valid answer)
2) Who is going to launch all this stuff ?
(a group of pseudo libertarians throwing around “money” they came to have via some hedge fund and/or funny paper sillyness IS NOT an answer to be taken seriously; I don`t include Elon Musk in this group if that`s what you were thinking)
3) What is wrong with the strategy of cutting the GLOBAL military budget by at least 1/3 and applying those resources (not the funny “money” currencies people focus on; and no, gold backed currencies aren`t a sane option either) to solve the real problems here at the bottom of the gravity well (note the Gates Foundation) AND doing both the Lunar and Mars expeditions as well as the asteroid exploration ?
(And we can, starting tomorrow if we were to decide to do so, eliminate hunger and other life support problems for all of the people resident on this planet. There is more than enough “dough” when reality is applied. Any other position is total bulls*it based on ignorance of the facts. Stop using other peoples ignorant discussion frames.)
I am very much looking forward to the debate that these folks are likely to touch off about space exploration and what should be done & how.
At least I hope a real (public) debate comes from this because one is really, really needed far more than one about if some political candidate somewhere actually shed tears in public or not.
(of course I am not holding my breath…)
January 20th, 2008 at 18:48
Just to be contrary, we could all, starting tomorrow if we were to decide to do so, be nice to everyone, lose weight, vote for Dennis Kucinich, go to church regularly and breath in through the nostrils and out through the mouth.
We won’t. Even in an universe of infinite possibilities some things are too improbable.
January 20th, 2008 at 18:58
Wad mentions the “orbital commons” and the very phrase suggests a solution: privatize Earth orbit. Just as the rf spectrum is being auctioned off we could sell space and trust that it will be in everyone’s interest to maintain safe and profitable access to orbit.
January 22nd, 2008 at 16:44
Walter, that really would be a tragedy of the commons. What will really happen is the oribital commons will be destroyed and then the private owners will expect to be bailed out by the government.
January 22nd, 2008 at 17:36
To expect people to behave walterically, is like expecting them to believe curtisly.
People at all stations of richness fuck themselves over constantly, without regard to their overflow effects on others. To expect this to stop simply because everybody has even more capability to fuck themselves and others over with even less impedance on their doing so is a tissue of something beyond absurdity.
I’m sure it has emotional appeal though, like seeing Jesus in a melted blob of cheese.
January 23rd, 2008 at 07:51
1. Who has the “right” to auction off the orbital commons?
2. The rf spectrum was stolen from those folks with spark transmitters back in the early days.
The orbital commons are as the earth: a highly limited resource. Regardless of who “owns” them, they will have to be significantly managed and regulated by some/many entities.
January 23rd, 2008 at 07:52
BTW, awesome post DC. The reason we are discussing this so much is the basic idea of going to the ‘roids first is excellent.
January 24th, 2008 at 15:12
“The orbital commons are as the earth: a highly limited resource.”
True. I would add that the safest and wealthiest places on Earth are owned and controlled by an entity or authority. As to who will control orbit I’d guess that they will have big lasers shielded by bigger rocks.
The rf spectrum theft is an interesting story. To control the real problem of frequency stepping the American government stepped in themselves and issued licenses instead of outright ownership to stations. This seemed to discourage innovation and of course allowed for political interests to influence form and content. If the spectrum had been auctioned off in the ’20s it may have been a very different radio century.
January 24th, 2008 at 19:53
NOTE to Baloney.Com - Do something about showing the newest message first.
“If the spectrum had been auctioned off in the ’20s it may have been a very different radio century.”
Again I ask - who gets to auction? The guys with the big lasers?
Sorry, the whole auction off thing annoys me. I want the orbits, not the money, the spectrum, not the cash. Then I can sell it if I want.
January 24th, 2008 at 23:26
The FCC made rules for RF use in the early part of the 20th Century because of technical immaturity. The technology was NOT available to have more than one station using a specific frequency (with buffer space between said frequencies necessary due to modulation bandwidth requirements)
Now days the allocation of spectrum according to those rules makes no sense other than for political reasons. Using the appropriate equipment (WiFi is a prefect example) many signals can occupy the same frequency slot.
It is a whole different game now due to technology maturation.
As far as the orbital game goes, you have to get there to use it.
Got the capability ?